Pokémon Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon

Drago said:
I'll be one to say I hope there aren't a ton of new Pokemon. As far as I'm concerned, there's too many as it is. Especially considering only 20-30 are ever seen competitively. I have a few requests for Sun/Moon, the former being the one I'm getting.

1. Fewer Pokemon, more acclimating old Pokemon. When was the last time you saw anyone using Parasect or Ledian? Or when did you see anyone using Dedenne, who just came out? Even in the story mode for your friends? Stop spending so much time creating new Pokemon no one wants to use and spend more time making sure every Pokemon has something it can do. I'm not saying every Pokemon needs to be OU, but GF gave base 55 ATK Ledian Iron Fist for a goddamn ability! That shows no f***s given!

2. Competent gym leaders. Make every gym leader high level. These are supposed to be 8 (or more) of the toughest trainers in the entire region! I shouldn't be able to beat one with a level 10 Charmander! Even better, have more than 8 leaders that you only have to defeat 8 of in order to go the Pokemon League!
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I have to disagree with these two points:

Having fewer Pokémon in a new generation will never, ever happen; that's is one of the selling point for a "new generation" game. To cut it down would simply hurt the overall experience of the game with little "new" Pokémon to discovered. To appease to the old Pokémon is unnecessary; especially when they've already done so in particular fashion as each new generation debuted:
  • Generation 2 with Baby Pokes/Egg moves. 
  • Generation 3 with the Natures and Abilities. 
  • Generation 4 with the Physical/Special Split + Further Evolutions for some Pokémon. 
  • Generation 5 with Hidden abilities. 
  • Generation 6 with Mega-Evolution. 
It's evident that Generation 7 will introduce something new onto the table in some fashion. Your point is mostly gears towards competitively community, which I highly doubt is anything that GameFreak is concern about when they create new Pokémon. To simply go back to make sure "xyz" Pokémon to be great is unnesscary work - because it wouldn't solve the problem anyways. Some Pokémon are better or worse than others; that won't stop a people from using it in their team (even if they're a minority). 

2) Higher levels means nothing, if you're already prepared. The problem is the AI. Make the Gym Leaders have better movesets for the Pokemon, items, EVs/IVs, etc then you will have a challenge. Simply just putting them in "high level" means nothing when one can just simply grind to get a certain level (or more) to stream rolled them.
 
There are speculating that this new "region" will be connected to Kalos, but we don't know anything for sure until we get more information. According to Corocoro, we'll get information about Sun and Moon in May (rather than the "next issue". So I assumed that will get something before corocoro?)

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The first images from CoroCoro have leaked and have revealed that next month will provide a huge scoop on Pokémon Sun & Moon. It has text saying that you can't see the Pokémon in the box art yet. We'll bring more as it comes

Edit @ 11:37: In the movie section of CoroCoro, it has confirmed that the Mythical Pokémon, Magearna, is to be a Steel/Fairy-type Pokémon
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Agreed, high level gym leaders don't mean a thing if the computer is incompetent.

It isn't that they aren't capable of programming competent AI; they have proven that. However, the AI is so incompetent much of the time it almost feels like hand holding. 

Whitney is considered hard but her AI just spams Milk Drink and rollout. If you force her to use jer berry early and poison/burn/leech it, the battle is just pressing A. Not that hard.

It would be pretty sweet to have a champ that has hidden ability Pokemon on their team though. 

A fix to that wouldn't be higher levels; that just encourages grinding sessions which are tedious and you shouldn't need to do so. But they shouldn't be lower than wild Pokemon in that area either.

If you avoid duplicate pokemon, give a moveset that can at least not be a one trick pony, and employ an AI that can switch Pokemon OR be able to adapt to your team threats, it should be feel more rewarding in that aspect.

Beating a high level pokemon with a shit AI wouldn't feel like you earned it, it would feel like they would hand it over to you anyway.


There's a lot of pissbabies over no Coro leaks XD
 
LoopyPanda said:
Agreed, high level gym leaders don't mean a thing if the computer is incompetent.

It isn't that they aren't capable of programming competent AI; they have proven that. However, the AI is so incompetent much of the time it almost feels like hand holding. 

Whitney is considered hard but her AI just spams Milk Drink and rollout. If you force her to use jer berry early and poison/burn/leech it, the battle is just pressing A. Not that hard.

It would be pretty sweet to have a champ that has hidden ability Pokemon on their team though. 

A fix to that wouldn't be higher levels; that just encourages grinding sessions which are tedious and you shouldn't need to do so. But they shouldn't be lower than wild Pokemon in that area either.

If you avoid duplicate Pokemon, give a move-set that can at least not be a one trick pony, and employ an AI that can switch Pokemon OR be able to adapt to your team threats, it should feel more rewarding in that aspect.

Beating a high-level Pokemon with a shit AI wouldn't feel like you earned it, it would feel like they would hand it over to you anyway.


There's a lot of pissbabies over no Coro leaks XD
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Exactly. These fans acting like putting high-end numbers will do significant changes - all it does is encourage more grinding to surpassed the level. You need to have the AI actually to be intelligence - and to avoid scaring off kids and new players, add the optional "Trainer Mode" - Easy/Normal and "Veteran Mode" - which is hard with the more competent AI, hell even bring in rewards for doing both of these mods (like mega stones, etc) - essentially, what Generation 5 nearly tried to do. 

Anyways, Pokemon News will arrive tomorrow, so get ready for it :awesome:

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-Region straight up Hawaii with tons of tropical aspects and looks like a game for exploration
-Overworld characters turn to look towards you as you pass by like in Gale of Darkness
-Midtone skintone between pale and dark
-Starters all look absolutely adorable
-Badass Lion Legendary
-Insanely cool Bat lookin Legendary
-Female model has a cute outfit + Beanie styled hat
-Customization came back
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Moon would be the on for me if I had a ds. That legendary looks super badass.
 
You two missed the entire point of my post or just didn't bother to actually read it. The first thing I said was make the gym leaders competent. After that, I said make them a higher level because they should be due to their status.

1. The gym leaders should be competent in order to make the battle challenging. They should probably have some coverage moves to cover their type to also go along with that.
2. They should be a higher level than most trainers (minus the ones in Victory Road) and close to the same level as each other. Can their be gym leaders who are a bit lower? Yeah, but it shouldn't be more than maybe 10.
3. If they're making gym leaders solely milestones like bosses are in RPGs, then make rematches. In Gen III, Brock was considered an absolute joke due to even Charmander having no issue with him thanks to Metal Claw. They somewhat mended this in Gen IV with the gym leader rematches in Johto.

Just dumping off the older Pokemon because they're old is a great way to irritate a lot of people. I never said to make every Pokemon competitively viable. I actually said the opposite and that I didn't feel they should have to.

My complaint was GF clearly not showing any concern for older Pokemon in an almost insulting way. Examples:
1. Ledian, who has a base 55 ATK, no lore involving punching or even being a fighter, learned one punching move when it debuted and is known for its SpD...got Iron Fist as an ability.
2. Rotom has multiple forms. They're all awesome and adorable. They use to be Electric/Ghost, regardless of form, so Levitate as an ability, while not making much sense (since all its forms touch the ground), made competitive sense. Once their types matched their form, their abilities should have been made to match too. Instead, we now have a Flying type Rotom-F with Levitate as an ability. They might fix it this generation, an with abilities like Aerialate and Refrigerate, they have options to make each form more unique.
3. Delibird gets a lot of hate to this day. Whether people hate the design, which I find adorable, the moveset or the fact that it has Vital Spirit and Insomnia taking up two ability slots! GF gave Delibird two abilities that do the same damn thing! One is a hidden ability! They wasted its goddamn HA on something it could already do! They took time making sure Delibird was more worthless! There are many other examples, but this one is by far the most frustrating example of GF, not just not caring about, but actively worsening an older Pokemon.

I'm alright with adding more Pokemon as long as they show the same care to every single family in some way. They can even add in new items to counter some of these effects if they want. Just give them something. They've shown the ability to do with some Pokemon.

1. Farfetch'd got the Stick item, which raises its Crit ratio two stages. As of Gen VI, that means 100% crits.
2. Psychic, Poison and Dragon types all got too powerful, so they made Dark, Steel and Fairy types respectively to deal with them.
3. People wanted to bond more easily with their Pokemon and got Pokemon Amie.
4. People wanted customisable trainers and got them.

I don't expect them to get everything right the first time. That'd be insane. But every problem I've listed has been around years, decades for some of them.

And to cover the incessant need of the internet asking for every region in one game, that's stupid. The only way to pull that off would be in an MMO and even then, it'd still be a watered down version of the games. Nobody wants that. XD

About Sun & Moon
I like the designs of the Pokemon we've seen so far and I love that it's a tropical region. Watch there still be a snow area. XD
 
Interesting thing with the hoenn starters:

The Swampert line have stayed in basically the same tier since they were introduced. The Sceptile line, unfortunately, are only really good in their home games since they can't really take advantage of their high special attack come gen 4 and the phys/special spilt which made Sceptile basically irrelevant. Then you have Blaziken which wasn't so hot in its home game but then actually became progressively more relevant over time, and a speed boost Blaziken can even kick its way into ubers even without mega evolution.

On topic, I can't wait for sun and moon, even if I am a bit salty that there are no reptilian or amphibious starters. I guess I'll try Popplio since I feel sorry for him.
 
Drago said:
You two missed the entire point of my post or just didn't bother to actually read it. The first thing I said was make the gym leaders competent. After that, I said make them a higher level because they should be due to their status.
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Nowhere in my response implies that your message didn't talk about competent of gym leaders. It's clear that I was only referring to your point on higher level gym leaders and expressed my disagreement. Then I further my position that the only problem is just the AI itself--agreeing with your point on competence--because that actually matters in terms of challenge for the long run.

Furthermore-- Gym Leaders are already higher than trainers you meet prior to them -- and if you prepared, it doesn't matter anyways unless you deliberately down-scaled grinding in some fashion. Just because some trainer(s) in other towns are stronger than Gym Leaders doesn't mean anything. Heck, you have trainers stronger than Elite Four (i.e Benga). Even the Pokemon Games established that Gym Leaders isn't necessarily being assigned too it or being the strongest -- it can be passed down.

Edit: If anything, if "high level status for Gym Leaders" is that apparent, they could have easily just have the gym leaders being 10 levels ahead of you regardless -- meaning it's fixed to be higher than yours regardless of grinding you do.

Just dumping off the older Pokemon because they're old is a great way to irritate a lot of people. I never said to make every Pokemon competitively viable. I actually said the opposite and that I didn't feel they should have to.
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Never said you did. 

I'm alright with adding more Pokemon as long as they show the same care to every single family in some way. They can even add in new items to counter some of these effects if they want. Just give them something. They've shown the ability to do with some Pokemon.
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  • Generation 2 with Baby Pokes/Egg moves. 
  • Generation 3 with the Natures and Abilities. 
  • Generation 4 with the Physical/Special Split + Further Evolutions for some Pokémon. 
  • Generation 5 with Hidden abilities. 
  • Generation 6 with Mega-Evolution. 
  • Adding items such as Eviolite for fans who dislike Generation 4 Evolutions of Generation 1/2/3 Pokémon
  • Change the base stats of Pokémon (which was practically unthinkable until now) for an hand full of Pokémon. 
  • Given Pokemon at least one new move -whether from tutoring/breeding/level-up/events as each new generation debuts
  • Inclusion of Fairies that older Pokémon benefited from--such as Mawile.
GameFreak has clearly shown to give Pokémon something in each generation. Just because one doesn't have a kickass ability or gets something that "hinders" or doesn't benefit them (in other words, it isn't as seen as useful in fans' eyes) -- despite that GameFreak thinking it fits them-- doesn't mean they don't care about their creation. Ironically enough, Rotom-formes is popular in the competitive field, especially the infamous OU presenter, Rotom-Wash. Ledian is clearly a reference to Pulseman. 

In addition, as I stated before, your post is points more-so towards the competitive community. You're right about GameFreak's inability to care; they don't care about the metagame for the most part (although they expressed interest in doubles and their reasoning for making a fairy type) and when they do show interest-it has no impact on how they create Pokémon. They create Pokémon to be appealing for the audience to bond with, along with throwing in reference from mythos, lore and even meta examples of their previous games (Ledian-Pulseman)--they're not motivated to creating Pokémon to have something going for them -- especially when said Pokémon can have the good *insert here* but horrible *insert here* in fan's opinions and be considered "trash".
 
Drago said:
3. If they're making gym leaders solely milestones like bosses are in RPGs, then make rematches. In Gen III, Brock was considered an absolute joke due to even Charmander having no issue with him thanks to Metal Claw. They somewhat mended this in Gen IV with the gym leader rematches in Johto.
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If you have to grind your Charmander so he can learn Metal Claw to have the advantage over Brock, I don't think Brock was the pushover. Brock would have still been easy if you picked Bulbasaur or Squirtle. I think Charmander is a great way to challenge yourself if you think the game is easy with the other starters. That doesn't mean Brock is a joke, it just means that it'll be a little bit more challenging at first if you pick Charmander. 

Drago said:
My complaint was GF clearly not showing any concern for older Pokemon in an almost insulting way.
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For the most part, Game Freak does care about the old Pokemon. Like.. a lot. If they didn't, they would've never given old Pokemon new abilities, eggs moves, tutor moves, or even some TMs. Literally the entire Kanto Dex was revamped and boosted with the new mechanics. Let's look at Arcanine, which is a prime example of love.

Arcanine in GEN. 1 had a Special Stat of 80. He was a pretty average Pokemon overall. He wasn't GREAT, but it was a good addition to any team.

GEN. 2, they gave him 20 extra points to his Special Stat, giving him a nice 100 in Special. (This is before the Special Split) This made Arcanine one of, if not, the most powerful Pokemon in the game, depending on how you use him, of course. In the same GEN. 2, they have him ExtremeSpeed at Level 50. This was awesome since Arcanine was mostly used as a physical attacker. Not only that, he was the only (Non-legendary) Pokemon that was able to learn ExtremeSpeed by Leveling up, up until Lucario and Togekiss in Gen.4

In GEN. 3, Arcanine was given many moves that use his physical stat but also sprinkled some powerful special moves such as Fire Blast, Heat Wave, and Overheat. In previous generations, Arcanine could not learn Fire Blast via leveling up along with a few other fire types such as Charizard and Typhlosion. His move set also included good physical moves such as Iron Tail, Bite, Aerial Ace, and Thrash. Not only did he get a good selection of moves, he also got a nice ability to back himself up: Intimidate and Flash Fire. (Hidden Abilities didn't come until later)

GEN. 4 added even more attacks to his movepool and this is when the Special Split happened. Arcanine can now be used as a Special/Physical/Mixed attacker. This is where they juiced up Arcanine even more. They gave him the Elemental Fang moves (Thunder and Fire fang.) They even gave him a form of recovery: Morning Sun (Which was exclusive to Espeon for a while). He learned Solarbeam, Endure, Dragon Pulse, Will-O-Wisp, Giga Impact, Flare Blitz, and Iron Head. All of which help him deal at LEAST neutral damage to ANY Pokemon. Arcanine is a powerful Pokemon depending on how you used him. He now has counters to his weaknesses (Solarbeam beats his rock, ground, AND Water weakness and ThunderFang makes sure no water Pokemon are safe.) 

GEN. 5 gave him Close Combat, Retaliate, Wild Charge, Bulldoze, Double Kick, and Outrage. He also got a new ability: Justified (Meaning if you get hit with a Dark move, it gives you a +1 to your Physical attack) They also made it that you can get ExtremeSpeed at a lower level. (B/W: lvl 39 and B2/W2: lvl 34) They also made it easy to catch a Growlithe pretty early on in B2/W2 (Around the Virbank City)

GEN 6: Now that Fairy types are a thing, Iron Head and Iron Tail play a nice part for Arcanine's moveset. He literally has nothing to worry about, he's prepared for this.

Just because GF doesn't do this with ALL older Pokemon (Mostly because there really isn't a need...) that doesn't mean they don't care about them. They do care if they took the time to give all the other Pokemon Abilities/Hidden abilities when they could've easily made it Gen.3/Gen.5 exclusive. Prime example: Megas; why weren't all the Megas just Gen.6 Pokemon? Why were ALL the Megas older Pokemon and not exclusive to just Gen. 6 Pokemon? Why were there soooooo many old Pokemon featured in Kalos? Why did they give you the Kanto starters? And a Lapras? And a Mega Lucario? Why were the ONLY roaming Pokemon the 3 Birds of Kanto? Why was Mewtwo there? This wasn't to please the fans, it was to mix up the style and give new and old players a wide variety of Pokemon that they can build their team on. 

Drago said:
3. Delibird gets a lot of hate to this day. Whether people hate the design, which I find adorable, the moveset or the fact that it has Vital Spirit and Insomnia taking up two ability slots! GF gave Delibird two abilities that do the same damn thing! One is a hidden ability! They wasted its goddamn HA on something it could already do! They took time making sure Delibird was more worthless! There are many other examples, but this one is by far the most frustrating example of GF, not just not caring about, but actively worsening an older Pokemon.
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Delibird is based off Santa. Santa never sleeps. He's a gimmick and a nod to Santa who never sleeps. His abilities prevent him from going to/put to sleep. Also: Hustle: Choice Banded Priority Ice Shard will almost OHKO a Salamence or anything weak to ice. Delibird is just pretty frail and he doesn't like rocks. You're right, there are some Pokemon that can do his job better but he's not worthless. Not in the slightest.

Drago said:
1. Ledian, who has a base 55 ATK, no lore involving punching or even being a fighter, learned one punching move when it debuted and is known for its SpD...got Iron Fist as an ability.
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Swords Dance, Power-Up punch + Elemental punches. Iron Fist boosts up his PUNCHING moves. He currently knows: Comet Punch, Mach Punch, Power-Up Punch, Dizzy Punch, Drain Punch, Focus Punch, Ice Punch, and ThunderPunch. Besides, you don't HAVE to use Iron Fist; Early Bird works well with his high Sp.Def. and Speed. Resto-Chesto set with Power-Up Punch, Reflect/Light Screen, Rest, Struggle Bug to lower Sp.Atk even more. That's just a set I pulled out of my ass but I see it working, especially if you wanna stall. Sometimes, not using a hidden ability is usually better for some Pokemon. And his attack is 35.

Drago said:
They can even add in new items to counter some of these effects if they want. Just give them something. They've shown the ability to do with some Pokemon.

2. Psychic, Poison and Dragon types all got too powerful, so they made Dark, Steel and Fairy types respectively to deal with them.
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See Choice Banded Delibird. I doubt GF is going to make an item unique to every single Pokemon. Maybe some, but not all.

Weakness Policy made some Pokemon straight up broken, especially the Dragons. Toxic Orb on Breloom or any Poison heal Pokemon means a guarantee no status inflict (Other than Poison for Poison Heal) on your Pokemon. Flame Orb with Fling burns your opponent. Light Ball Fling Paralyzes them. Iron Ball Fling is deadly. It is also useful against flying Pokemon and Levitating Pokemon which makes them targets for Ground moves. It's a good thing to Fling on to speedy Pokemon. Eject button Regenerator. Red Card Set-Ups. I'm going down the list.

And when were Poison types OP before fairies?

On Topic: I'm hype for Sun and Moon. I cried when I saw the trailers and still do! ;~;
 
Drago said:
2. Psychic, Poison and Dragon types all got too powerful, so they made Dark, Steel and Fairy types respectively to deal with them.
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Sorry, gonna have to disagree on the Poison bit. Poison pokemon have always been treated like the unwanted kid by GF, especially considering Psychics have been one of the stronger types for quite some time. Not once have I seen them really effect the meta, so much as recall they exist.  I have a hard time believing the typing alone is "too powerful" with a few exceptions to Poison types with versatile move pools. I am going off the statement regarding Pure Poison type. Not duals like Venasaur and Vileplume (which are 4x weak to Psychic, which is worse than just being a poison type). 

Poison isn't supereffective against anything aside from currently two types. Nidoking is essentially weak to itself (Ground) and Water, which is one of the most common types. Psychics have been there as long as Poison types, so they were fucked over to begin with. Steel is immune to them, but they are just as incapable of denting to the other type you claim they were made to oppose. With the exception of Mawile's new dual typing and Klefki. I actually don't know what Steel has relevance for either of the 3 types. They don't counter any of these (save for Scizor against Psychics I guess); Dragons resist it, Psychics don't have a particular weakness, and I don't believe Poisons seem threatened by pure Steels.

Edit: Just looked it up. Steels in fact were NOT introduced to deal with "overpowered Poison types". They weren't overpowered to begin with because of Psychics initially dominating the meta. They were introduced to RESIST PSYCHIC attacks. Although they come with a poison immunity, it's irrelevant since Poisons never had a strong footing to start. Your only defense against Sabrina's pokemon was Haunter/Gengar; a type that could fight them, but still destroyed from psychic types anyway from its poison type. Poison was never in the big leagues to begin with.

Gliscor or any pokemon running about with Earthquake equipped make this pretty much invalid that Poison pures are as formidable as Dragons. Poisons are not a threat in general competitively if they aren't dual typed. In game they also aren't very threatening. One earthquake or psychic move and they drop. Feel free to correct me if there is an actually OP Poison only Pokemon out there that had to be put in its place.

However, I feel that this would belong in a different thread since it's starting to deviat from Sun and Moon expectations. If you wish to continue this kind of thing, I'd suggest a thread discussing the meta and criticisms similar to that kind of thing before this derails. :v

Though sometimes i question their want to make 'creative designs'. I would hardly call Ekans or Geodude creative. Given one is literally a rock with arms. But that is another can of worms not for this topic.

Also I love Popplio unironically and I can't wait to whoop ass with him
 
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Solagleo and Lunnala with their types, along with a new Rotom forme that takes over your Pokedex. Alola has multiple islands (although that was confirmed accidentally through the description from the Pokemon Sun and Moon handbook). 


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Find the rest of the videos, here: Pokemon JPN Channel
 
OMFG! I can't wait until Sun and Moon (Team Moon ftw) but I do have some speculations of my own. I wonder what Lillie's purpose is gonna be other than 'mysterious assistant'. Here's my speculation: She's either the Wally-Effect (Weak at first but strong at the end) or she can be connected to the evil team (or tricked/used). I haven't seen a lot of people totally interested in Lillie but she's one of my main interests and I am HELLA excited to see what Sun and Moon will provide with her.

On a side note, I REALLY want there to be over 100 pokemon with unique typings like Fire/Grass or Poison/Fairy. LET'S DO IT, GAMEFREAK!
 
Corocoro have been leaked:

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Zygarde Formes has been revealed!

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The first images from CoroCoro have leaked and have revealed the latest news on Sun & Moon. As always, do note that translations are preliminary while we work on them. The bear is called Kiteruguma and is Normal/Fighting with the abilities Fluffy and Klutz, while the ghost is Mimikkyu and is Ghost/Fairy. It has the ability called Disguise.
People in Alola are scared of Kiteruguma to the point of having warning signs about it. It is really strong and can break anytthing in two. It likes to hug its trainers but is strong. Raising one puts your life in danger.
Mimikkyu hates sunlight, preferring dark places. It is rumoured that the cloth covering its body is a strategy to avoid the sun. Don't try to remove the cloth it is said that those that do become afflicted with an illness . We'll bring more as it comes
From Serebii
 
So we finally have a  Red Panda Pokemon. Interesting. 

Ghost/Fairy? That looks cool. I wonder if each cloth is different when you encounter one?
 
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Holy fucking shit!!!!! I guess some of the "apparent leaks" were fucking true. God damn.

Cm3Ng5RUEAA5104
 
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