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Discussion of the SSGSS Debacle

Vegetto

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I don't know if we have anyone on the other side of this argument, but I'd like to go ahead and start a thread over the incident in Revival of F here:

12316431_10207203427395495_432487065211390573_n.jpg


For starters, I'd like to say that I get this. I understand what Toryiama was trying to do, but here's the big problem with this entire statement:

The transformations require energy to even be maintained. The concept behind the damage to Goku makes sense in the way of what happened in previous portions of DBZ: Vegeta losing his tail to a sword despite being able to tank beyond city busting attacks as well as Goku's suffering in the first time they encountered Frieza. But the thing, again, is in the transformation: none of the feats similar to the damage in Revival of F used a transformation except for the one time FPSSJ Goku got mad at Krillin for throwing a rock at him in filler during the Cell Saga (which I also discard as it was mostly for comedic reasons).

Super Saiyan, and every other rendition especially SSGSS, require energy to run. What makes this worse is that SSGSS, the form Goku was still in when he took the hit, runs off godly ki. Which is leagues above regular ki by a somewhat unspecified amount. Fortunately, there is a feat within the movie preceding RoF that completely debunks the laser shot through SSJ3:

tumblr_n5hlboihpP1rgn3nyo7_400.gif


Now, here we have SSJ3 Goku tanking a hit from Beerus from behind. This is clearly through his guard, as Goku wasn't even able to keep track of Beerus' movements. This is the same guy who turned an egg to dust by tapping even lighter than in the gif above:

4669282-8493575662-0XVXj.gif


To turn something to dust is clearly a level of power beyond something a weak laser gun ring like Sorbet's is capable of in force, regardless if its energy or kinetic based. Energy does not have special properties that supersedes other forms of ki through any other reasoning other than being more powerful than the defense, proven in the tanking of hits by the Z-Fighters.

Yet despite taking that hit, Goku was only knocked out. SSJ3 then clearly demonstrates it has the power to tank forces capable of rendering objects to dust in a single tap with just its energy output alone. SSG is close to the level that dwarfed SSJ3 in that particular fight, and SSGSS is described as being 50 times stronger because its SSG with Super Saiyan on top of it.

So a form that has energy output beyond such an amount suddenly can't tank a laser ring? Because Goku was completely relaxed even though he has to be in his normal form to be completely out of ki?

What does everyone else think?
 

ShineCero

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It's simply bad writing, in order to showcase whatever Toriyama was going for, even if it disregards previous showings that Goku and other warriors can easily tank attacks regardless if they're out of ki or not. If Super change that scene, hopefully it's something better; then again, Super hasn't been all that impressive as of late so I have doubts it would change that dumb scene or not.
 

JamesYTP

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Hm, didn't Goku actually figure a way to use Super Saiyan in day to day life as naturally as breathing? If my understanding of SSGSS is correct it's basically Goku's new Super Saiyan 1 form. If it is that'd kinda explain that somewhat, even if it is largely due to reverse plot armor.
 

ShineCero

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That's the thing though; Goku had been relaxed or heck, ran out of ki prior to this and still didn't get pierced by "weaker" things. Sorbet's laser ring was just bad writing to prove a point, but the execution and the build up failed on that aspect, you know?

It would be better if the weapon was very powerful and it handle such capabilities; but even then, regardless of that scene, Goku practically didn't learn anything new nor learn his lesson. Super is probably going to change that, but it's most likely going to be worst.
 

Alzoru

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Maybe the laser has a destabilizing effect that makes it do more damage to more powerful foes? (Note: I'm not being serious.)
 
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